Set a new speed record tonight, 55MPH GPS Verified

Z

zombiess

10 MW
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
3,048
Location
Oklahoma City
Picture of bike attached. Super short 37" wheel base, so I have to weigh shift a whole lot during acceleration and hard braking. Front fork does not have enough spring rate so I will be replacing it tomorrow. During riding the front shock will regularly bottom out under just slight braking which changes the geometry. Luckily it only has 2" of travel. It will be good for my future wifes ebike since she weighs under 100lbs and I'm 175.

Motor is a 9C 2806 with the phase wires upgraded to 12 AWG, holes drilled in side covers and all hall sensors upgraded to Honeywell SS41's after a crash at the Grange track caused a short and popped one of them. Even with the flaws the bike rides well, but takes some getting use to, mainly because you must weight shift to ride it. It will power wheelie at 35mph if and go WOT if you are sitting upright, not good if you aren't expecting it.

Controller is one of the famous modded ones from Lyen (can't recommend or thank him enough for all the help he's been to me). I didn't like the block time set at 1.0S so I did a little hex editing and dropped it to 0.2S which made the bike so much smoother when leaving from a stop, probably going to drop it down to 0.1S, not sure what happens if I try 0.0S. This is an 18 FET 4115 controller using the newest EB318 board. It has only 3 shunt wires installed and I noticed that they have some solder on them. The shunt has calculated out to be 1.25 Ohms after my first test ride (Lyen said 1.3 to get me in the ball park).

Battery is 124.5V hot off the charger, 30S2P LiPo 20C 6S Turnigy
Settings are 130 Phase Amps, 50 Battery Amps (but see up to 56A for a second with a brief 66A peak). Speed 1:40% 26 mph, Speed 2: 70% 42mph, Speed 3: 105% 55mph, probably just a hair faster since I did the 55mph @ 119V.

Safety equipment is a full face carbon fiber bmx helmet, bicycle gloves, wind breaker, jeans, some sort of glasses, 203mm front rotor with a Avid Juicey 5 (wow is this thing awesome) and moderately sized testicles.

When I let my friend ride it tonight he was going about 30 mph and flipped the switch from position 2 to 3 without letting off the throttle, he was greeted with an instant but controllable power wheelie and was heard exclaiming "Holy shit!" in surprise. He's 6'5 205lbs so he doesn't fit on the bike so well.

Tomorrow he is lengthening another swing arm I have for this bike by 8" and I'm installing a much nicer 100mm travel front fork. With these mods done the bicycle should be much more predictable and stable... until my new motor shows up :twisted:

I have a 4 channel logging k-type thermocouple I plan to install in the controller before making some changes to it for handling more current and having better cooling. After beating around on it for the 2.5 mile ride home which was between 30-54mph with the 54mph I stuck one of the thermocouples into the phase coils of the motor to get an idea of how hot it was. I picked a spot I could go as deep as possible, but it had been about 5 mins since I got off the bike and the highest reading I got was 61C/142F. Ambient temp was 13C/55f. Controller case was 27C/81F. Phase wires, barely warm.

Bicycle scales in about 70lbs. I can't wait to do the fork and extended swing arm, this thing should be nasty. Then I need to worry about reliability of the controller, not to sure if I'm stressing it very hard or not, doesn't seem like it, at least not with our current weather.
 

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Nice achievment! :mrgreen:

How do you feel at 55MPH and... 37" wheel base :shock:

Your no load speed with that setup should be at around 78MPH and generally, we get 66% of that speed on the road and it give 52MPH wich is credible :wink:

Now imagine with a 130MPH no load :twisted: that's what my future 5403 will give :twisted:

Doc
 
Wow that's a sweet bike. Just be careful. Anything over 30 MPH is not safe in my opinion.
 
Congratulations!! :D

Way to show the potential of that 9C hubbie!

:twisted:
 
Jason27 said:
Wow that's a sweet bike. Just be careful. Anything over 30 MPH is not safe in my opinion.
Click to expand...


I live for statements like this.

Nice job man, I wish I could have seen you tearing it up at Grange!
 
Well, maybe he meant, over 30 mph on THAT is not safe. I'da been scared shitless doing it on that rig. Especially doing it close to naked in terms of body armor. At least do the DR uniform, overalls over Jeans. That short of wheelbase does have one virtue, not long enough to flex much in the frame. 8)

You do clang when you walk buddy. I just touched 50 one time on my racer, and just couldn't stop thinking about the tires, and street debris.
 
I'm guessing 55 doesn't phase him too much. If you have a z06, 55 is still 2nd gear.
 
55 is very fast on such a small bike. I'd love to try it for fun on a perfect surface, but as every day ride with road hazards I feel it's fast already on my big bikes.
 
Hi there, congrats on your speed record.

What are those forks you are using? I have been looking for superior suspension forks for my BMX's but I haven't come across much.

Thanks.
 
Yeah like I was saying, it's not the frame really. You'd get a lot more high speed wobble on a 26" wallbike frame. But above 40 mph, I just keep thinking about how thin street slick bike tires are, and how the roads are paved with nails, bolts, glass, rocks.
I did a lot of laps on a nearly flat tire at the DR last spring. At 40 the tire spun itself tall again. 8) A sudden blowout on the street from sharp edged road junk would really suck at 55.
 
Massive respect, 55 on something that short must be pretty crazy. :D

Hoon safely!
 
So here is an update on the bike. The bicycle gods were angry at me today. I decided to install my brand new RST Omega TNL shock for a 26" wheel. I did this because the RST 20" shock just doesn't have a strong enough spring rate for my weight. Took three trips to a bike shop 20 miles away but I finally got it installed. $10 First problem was getting the old crown race off the threaded steerer which thankfully is a clamp on type and transferred over to my new fork.
$10 Second problem was realizing either myself or the bike shop crushed the first thread on the steerer tube when pounding it out to get the crown off, had them use a guide and hack saw to fix that issue
$105 After installing new fork with 100mm travel, Avid Juicy 5 with 80mm brake hose just really doesn't reach... I also noticed that this fork uses a post mount and the old fork was a ISO mount... crap, back to the bike shop. Bike shop says $44 for longer hose + $20 for install which they and I thought was just plain silly. Bought a slightly used Hayes Stroker with long enough hose and 203mm post adapter. Finally got it back together... GO ME! Only took a grand total of 5 hours start to finish because of the stupid multiple trips... grrr. Was supposed to be a simple 45 min job, just the way it goes I guess.

Good news, wheel base went from 37" to 38.5" from the new taller fork, bad news, new fork is taller thus moves center of gravity further back meaning more power wheelies which sound so awesome on the internet and are manageable when you expect them, but no good as surprises.

Exact same battery and controller settings. Bike is violent. At one point while leaning over the handlebars (chin just past cycle analyst) I go WOT from 35mph in switch setting three which is 105%, I think the front wheel end hovered a good 2" off the ground for 30 feet until it settled down, didn't even realize it happened until I felt it touch down again. Top speed 56 MPH. I'm going to detune the controller until I get my new swing arm, this thing is just too dangerous right now because of wheelies. I'm going to move block time to 0.1S or turn it off is Lyen says it's OK to.

So I took the bike out for a quick 5 mile ride and beat on it to see how hot I could make it. Got into a street race with a BMW or Lexus, wasn't really paying attention, he left the light hard, I chased and caught up a little past the end of the intersection and yelled over is that it (we were going about 45mph at this point), he laughed and gunned it taking off to about 70mph which I can't get to...yet. No way he would have beat me across the intersection if I had the new swing arm, hoping for that tomorrow.

Some more data, I'm still calibrating the shunt setting in the CA to get an accurate reading of amps and it should be close now. This is an EB318 board from Lyen which has some pretty cool features like 4 selectable speed settings instead of 3 + some other supposed improvements I really don't know about. The CA showed a burst of 80A which must have been because of the 0.2S block time (they should rename it MOSFET self destruct countdown, but you don't always get to zero). Cruising around at high speed I was able to glance down at the CA and see I was drawing about 38A at 55mph but after recharging figured my shunt was off by about 4% so I recalibrate it and will check it again tomorrow. There seems to be quite a bit of solder between the 1-2 shunt and the 2-3 shunt at the ends which is calculating out to around a 1.23 mOhm shunt.

I think I'm going to go shopping for some DOT rated tires tomorrow, I'm also hoping to talk to my fabricator about the swing arm so we can make sure the rake on the front end stays correct for higher speed stability. Wheel base will be go from 38.5 to 46-48" which should be perfect.

The 9C 2806, let me tell you this motor impresses the heck out of me. During that 5 mile ride I rarely dropped below 30mph and was beating on it with the last run to 50+ up a 1% grade for 0.5 miles. It's about 13C/55f outside during the run (been really cold lately). Controller case was maybe 20C, wasn't warm at all. This time I got a thermocouple into the windings right after abusing it. The highest temp I could get burying the sensor in the coils was 80C/176F after 2 miles of 40+ mph riding and it started cooling off pretty quickly after about 5 mins. I thought for sure I'd be cooking this thing the way I've been abusing it, but if I'm ever reaching 100C in this weather, it drops back down fast. I've heard the danger zone is 125C. My can't get another wire through the axle so I'm stuck sticking it into the windings through a cover hole but I can bury it in there pretty deep, but it doesn't really seem to make much of a difference where I measure.


itchynackers said:
I'm guessing 55 doesn't phase him too much. If you have a z06, 55 is still 2nd gear.
Click to expand...

My Z06 is the daily driver (a pretty nice one making about 400 rwhp, but I got it used and it's a 10yr old car), but not my fast car (no I'm not rich, I'm just a cheap bastard who knows how to get good deals) which is current awaiting a replacement engine and previously made around 900 BHP@15psi on e85 in a 2000 CamaroSS (still a street car with A/C and stereo).

Quick highway test video @ 15psi, 3840lb race weight, 0-60mph in 1.9 sec, 0-100mph in 5.8 sec 10.0@136mph 1/4 mile all of this on a drag strip where there is traction. It's power to weight is a little better than a Bugatti Veyron and a Hyabusa, but my top end is only about 210mph (I'll never try because it's setup maily for drag racing of speeds under 150mph) with my gearing due to only having 3 gears (Th400 trans)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edvELDjeWpE
Just search ZombieSS77 on youtube or ZombieSS on streetfire if you want to see some of crazy speed stuff I've done.

I'm not too afraid of speed, but I have worked myself up gradually to become in tune with the vehicle, otherwise I'd be dead. It's taken me years to become accustomed to power, acceleration and not freaking out when it all goes to shit (at least not until after the incident is over, I swear my adrenal glands are on a 20-30 sec delay sometimes). It's the old saying you never rise to occasion, you fall to the level of your training

Enough bragging about the fast car toys though this is about my suicidal ebike but as I've made evidently clear, I'm a speed freak when it's safe and prudent to do so :)
 
Yeah, you got it baaaaad allright. Wait till you discover aircraft.

If your new fork is handling like a bike I did about the same thing to, it's dangerous now. Does it steer? mine was just floating that front wheel at all times, so you had to charge the bars to steer. Get the swingarm right, and adjust the angle down enough to get your headset angle back to what you need, and it should turn into a great bike. Give yourself multiple shock mount holes so you can tune the geometery with changes to the swingarm angle.
 
I bet the z turns corners like a mofo. I had a 2003 Lingenfelter supercharged z06. 507rwhp. Still wasn't enough. That's when I knew that cars were too expensive of a hobby.
 
very similar idea to steve heads dirt monkey bikes from years back, go steady on that thing! 55mph is quick :mrgreen:

twolions.jpg
 
Wow. The 9C has got more than I even imagined. I mean 5304 yeah, but on the 9C, that's pretty awesome. And not safe:)

Can we agree to start using motorcycle frames now?
 
zombiess said:
So here is an update on the bike. The bicycle gods were angry at me today. I decided to install my brand new RST Omega TNL shock for a 26" wheel. I did this because the RST 20" shock just doesn't have a strong enough spring rate for my weight. Took three trips to a bike shop 20 miles away but I finally got it installed. $10 First problem was getting the old crown race off the threaded steerer which thankfully is a clamp on type and transferred over to my new fork.
$10 Second problem was realizing either myself or the bike shop crushed the first thread on the steerer tube when pounding it out to get the crown off, had them use a guide and hack saw to fix that issue
$105 After installing new fork with 100mm travel, Avid Juicy 5 with 80mm brake hose just really doesn't reach... I also noticed that this fork uses a post mount and the old fork was a ISO mount... crap, back to the bike shop. Bike shop says $44 for longer hose + $20 for install which they and I thought was just plain silly. Bought a slightly used Hayes Stroker with long enough hose and 203mm post adapter. Finally got it back together... GO ME! Only took a grand total of 5 hours start to finish because of the stupid multiple trips... grrr. Was supposed to be a simple 45 min job, just the way it goes I guess.

Good news, wheel base went from 37" to 38.5" from the new taller fork, bad news, new fork is taller thus moves center of gravity further back meaning more power wheelies which sound so awesome on the internet and are manageable when you expect them, but no good as surprises.

Exact same battery and controller settings. Bike is violent. At one point while leaning over the handlebars (chin just past cycle analyst) I go WOT from 35mph in switch setting three which is 105%, I think the front wheel end hovered a good 2" off the ground for 30 feet until it settled down, didn't even realize it happened until I felt it touch down again. Top speed 56 MPH. I'm going to detune the controller until I get my new swing arm, this thing is just too dangerous right now because of wheelies. I'm going to move block time to 0.1S or turn it off is Lyen says it's OK to.

So I took the bike out for a quick 5 mile ride and beat on it to see how hot I could make it. Got into a street race with a BMW or Lexus, wasn't really paying attention, he left the light hard, I chased and caught up a little past the end of the intersection and yelled over is that it (we were going about 45mph at this point), he laughed and gunned it taking off to about 70mph which I can't get to...yet. No way he would have beat me across the intersection if I had the new swing arm, hoping for that tomorrow.

Some more data, I'm still calibrating the shunt setting in the CA to get an accurate reading of amps and it should be close now. This is an EB318 board from Lyen which has some pretty cool features like 4 selectable speed settings instead of 3 + some other supposed improvements I really don't know about. The CA showed a burst of 80A which must have been because of the 0.2S block time (they should rename it MOSFET self destruct countdown, but you don't always get to zero). Cruising around at high speed I was able to glance down at the CA and see I was drawing about 38A at 55mph but after recharging figured my shunt was off by about 4% so I recalibrate it and will check it again tomorrow. There seems to be quite a bit of solder between the 1-2 shunt and the 2-3 shunt at the ends which is calculating out to around a 1.23 mOhm shunt.

I think I'm going to go shopping for some DOT rated tires tomorrow, I'm also hoping to talk to my fabricator about the swing arm so we can make sure the rake on the front end stays correct for higher speed stability. Wheel base will be go from 38.5 to 46-48" which should be perfect.

The 9C 2806, let me tell you this motor impresses the heck out of me. During that 5 mile ride I rarely dropped below 30mph and was beating on it with the last run to 50+ up a 1% grade for 0.5 miles. It's about 13C/55f outside during the run (been really cold lately). Controller case was maybe 20C, wasn't warm at all. This time I got a thermocouple into the windings right after abusing it. The highest temp I could get burying the sensor in the coils was 80C/176F after 2 miles of 40+ mph riding and it started cooling off pretty quickly after about 5 mins. I thought for sure I'd be cooking this thing the way I've been abusing it, but if I'm ever reaching 100C in this weather, it drops back down fast. I've heard the danger zone is 125C. My can't get another wire through the axle so I'm stuck sticking it into the windings through a cover hole but I can bury it in there pretty deep, but it doesn't really seem to make much of a difference where I measure.


itchynackers said:
I'm guessing 55 doesn't phase him too much. If you have a z06, 55 is still 2nd gear.
Click to expand...

My Z06 is the daily driver (a pretty nice one making about 400 rwhp, but I got it used and it's a 10yr old car), but not my fast car (no I'm not rich, I'm just a cheap bastard who knows how to get good deals) which is current awaiting a replacement engine and previously made around 900 BHP@15psi on e85 in a 2000 CamaroSS (still a street car with A/C and stereo).

Quick highway test video @ 15psi, 3840lb race weight, 0-60mph in 1.9 sec, 0-100mph in 5.8 sec 10.0@136mph 1/4 mile all of this on a drag strip where there is traction. It's power to weight is a little better than a Bugatti Veyron and a Hyabusa, but my top end is only about 210mph (I'll never try because it's setup maily for drag racing of speeds under 150mph) with my gearing due to only having 3 gears (Th400 trans)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edvELDjeWpE
Just search ZombieSS77 on youtube or ZombieSS on streetfire if you want to see some of crazy speed stuff I've done.

I'm not too afraid of speed, but I have worked myself up gradually to become in tune with the vehicle, otherwise I'd be dead. It's taken me years to become accustomed to power, acceleration and not freaking out when it all goes to shit (at least not until after the incident is over, I swear my adrenal glands are on a 20-30 sec delay sometimes). It's the old saying you never rise to occasion, you fall to the level of your training

Enough bragging about the fast car toys though this is about my suicidal ebike but as I've made evidently clear, I'm a speed freak when it's safe and prudent to do so :)
Click to expand...


Hi there thanks for your updates, I have been wondering about your suspension forks, I run an X5305 in an Apollo Chaos BMX at 24s 65A nominal, I was considering some sort of suspension forks, but they are a component I don't know a lot about, especially in 20" format. I would appreciate any hints or guidelines you could give me, thanks.
 
The Mighty Volt said:
Hi there thanks for your updates, I have been wondering about your suspension forks, I run an X5305 in an Apollo Chaos BMX at 24s 65A nominal, I was considering some sort of suspension forks, but they are a component I don't know a lot about, especially in 20" format. I would appreciate any hints or guidelines you could give me, thanks.
Click to expand...

The 20" RST forks just don't have enough spring rate in them, way too soft and can be bottomed out by weight shift alone and I'm only 170lbs. With double the spring rate they would be great.
 
Just did some more riding and testing, turned the power down to keep from killing myself on the new fork. If the CA shunt is calibrated pretty close now, with a programmed 45A battery, 120 phase I was seeing a constant draw of 60A until I hit the BEMF point. Even when the battery was down to 110V resting voltage I was still able to maintain 50mph at about 41A. Fully charged at 55mph constant current draw was only about 48-50A, block time was dropped to 0.1S. High voltage, high current = block time bad!

I'm absolutely amazed at this 9C 2806 in a 20" wheel. I live in the Las Vegas and it's most flat here, don't have much over a 2% grade anywhere unless we go to the mountain roads. I've been really worried I was going to hurt my motor by beating on it so hard, but now I'm only worried about the controller. Did some more hard abuse at 40-50mph for 3-4 mins as the battery voltage was down with throttle set to 110%. Hurried into the garage, grabbed the temp probe. Motor windings were 75C and held there for about a min then started dropping. I've heard max safe is about 125C. It was pretty cold today though with the high only reaching 15C/60F).

I guess these motors are just really efficient at high voltage in a 20" wheel hauling my bike+me which is about 250lbs total. The cooling holes must make the difference, less heat = less resistance. Before I did the cooling hole mod I noticed that the motor would start to lose a little pep after a few miles of harder riding which I'm guessing was the resistance going up in the wiring somewhere. Since the 12 AWG Phase wire and cooling holes it doesn't ever lose much pep, even when the battery is close to dead.

My friend started to fab my swing arm extension today. Should have it installed by next weekend. It's too hard to ride this bike as it is now and I need to pay a ton of attention to body position and throttle control. Pedaling is useless unless in low power mode because it's not possible due to riding position required aka, full crouch, head past handlebars.
 
Doctorbass said:
Nice achievment! :mrgreen:

How do you feel at 55MPH and... 37" wheel base :shock:

Your no load speed with that setup should be at around 78MPH and generally, we get 66% of that speed on the road and it give 52MPH wich is credible :wink:

Doc
Click to expand...

I tested the no load speed, but the battery wasn't fully charged, highest I saw at speed 3 setting of 105% was 67mph but it didn't really seem to read any higher and sometimes went to 0 which was odd. worked fine in the 40% and 70% settings.

70% read a max of around 60mph i think and on the way home I hit 41mph. 40% was around 33mph and I went 22mph. I'll try to check them again tomorrow, the high speed settings over 100% seem to want to cause the speedo to stop reading once they kick in (that sudden boost in RPM you can clearly hear when unloaded).
 
you have got to get us some video of this in action :mrgreen: , i would think the phase wire mod has helped a great deal with the loss of pep you mentioned however cutting the cooling holes will help also.

I love little powerful bikes like this, they are so much fun arent they, I remember the first time I took my BMX out at 72V at 40mph that was an amazing experience, I used to do a detour on the way home just to rag about in a local multi level carpark! great days, they handle so well dont they.

Really nice job on the bike and would love to see some on and off bike video if you can get around to it.

Knoxie
 
I'm very impressed by this bike.

I waaaant the same!!!

But how much did this bike cost you? And what's the average wh/miles? Also the bike weight?

Last question, could I do that with any suspension bike? Could I do that with a Dahon Vitesse?
http://www.dahon.com/bikes/2011/vitesse-d7
 
cwah said:
I'm very impressed by this bike.

I waaaant the same!!!

But how much did this bike cost you? And what's the average wh/miles? Also the bike weight?

Last question, could I do that with any suspension bike? Could I do that with a Dahon Vitesse?
http://www.dahon.com/bikes/2011/vitesse-d7
Click to expand...

You have to pick your frame carefully and then make adjustments to the geometry in order for it to be stable. I have no worries of stability on this at 50+mph with the 20" susp fork I had. It's even more stable with the 26" 100mm travel susp fork due to increased rake angle, but it totally messed up the center of gravity so the rear swing arm now 8" longer. I'm hoping to put it together tomorrow for a test ride to see how it goes. When my new motor arrives I should be joining the 100km+ club. Evidently with a few simple mods to the Lyen EB318 controllers you can sustain a 100A battery draw and 200+ phase A. Once the bike is together tomorrow, I'm going to be doing some of the controller mods to help it handle more power. I believe this thing is going to be really stable and just insanely fun. Went to a motorcycle shop today to price out scooter tires because it's not safe to do this on bicycle tubes and tires in my opinion.
 
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